Kingpin: Arcade Sports Series Bowling logo Amiga Computing Gold Award

Strike a light, I'm going spare. Team 17 have pinned me down with another budget offering that's bound to bowl me over. Jonathan Maddock continues with the sad gags and takes a look.


The noble sport of tenpin bowling is a game of great skill and determination. You want proof? Only the other day I was searching through the various satellite channels trying to find something of slight interest to watch. Making my way into the foreign section I noticed that the tenpin world bowling championship was on.

Stopping in my remote control tracks while an over excitable commentator squealed something intelligible into his microphone, I was amazed at just how many people were at the arena supporting this so-called sport.

The two final contenders displayed a total lack of style and dress sense and have sported the worst two moustaches I have ever seen in my life, but my god could they play tenpin! Despite the fact they looked like late '70s porn stars, strikes rapidly became commonplace and it was a rare occurrence if they didn't knock all the pins down with two balls.

By this time I was getting more and more into this tenpin bowling/moustache lark, and when this TV extravaganza finished I yearned for a trek down to my local bowling arena - but there was something stopping me.

I have been ten-pin bowling once and it was one of the most embarrassing moments of my whole life. While pulling back my arm to let the ball go hurtling down the alley for a certain strike, I managed to actually throw the ball backwards.

Least to say, the people standing behind me were not impressed and I didn't exactly embrace tenpin with loving arms ever again. The other reason why I'll never play the infernal sport again is those crap blue and red shoes you have to wear. Not only has some sweaty footed goon worn them before you, but any kind of credibility you might've had flies out of the window with the greatest of ease. If I had wanted to look like a clown I would've joined the circus!

Team 17 have now decided to release Kingpin, heralded as the definitive tenpin bowling simulation, and this means I can play the sport once more without fear of embarrassment and without the need to wear the crap shoes. Hurrah!


Tenpin bowling is an indoor sport which first became popular in North America. As in skittles, the object is to bowl a ball down an alley at pins (ten as opposed to nine in skittles). The game is usually played between two players or teams.

A game of tenpins is made up of ten 'frames'. The frame is the bowler's turn to play and in each frame he or she may bowl twice. One point is scored for each pin knocked down, with bonus points for knocking all ten pins down in either one ball or two (strike or a spare). The player or team making the greater score wins the game.

The game of ninepins was introduced to America by Dutch immigrants in the 17th century. By the end of the 19th century, it was very popular as a gambling game on the streets of New York. Consequently, the game was outlawed and in fact the extra pin was added just to get around the law.



Anyone expecting a top-notch quality movie soundtrack, a raging dance tune or just about any good tune you can think of to appear in Kingpin may as well give up now and go home.

A game like this demands a certain type of musical backing. A cheesy tune is required and Kingpin's musical introduction is just about pure Gorgonzola. It's not my cup of tea, but if you're sad enough to like computer game music then you'd probably like it.

Ignore the soundtrack and move on to the game because what Kingpin lacks in musical taste is more than made up for in the sound effects department. Sit back and turn up your TV/monitor so you can let your ears take in all the sounds.

Hark, you can hear other tenpin games going on in the background and even announcements from the receptionist can be heard. Best of all is when you eventually get to throw your ball down the alley. Listen as your ball hits the polished wooden floor, rolls towards the pins and smashes all over the place.

The sound effects are all absolutely brilliant and I can't praise them enough as they give Kingpin oodles of atmosphere.




Take a quick peek at the screenshots dotted around the page. On the surface everything looks quite bland, but that is precisely the beauty and point of the graphics. Bland might not be the right word because the actual backgrounds and sprites are well drawn and fit into this type of game perfectly.

What I mean is Kingpin doesn't have fancy rendered graphics displayed in 256 colours to distract you from the all-important gameplay. What you might see before you could be described as looking slightly plain, but it lets you get on with the job of knocking down pins which is what the game is all about.

It's fairly hard to tell you about the graphical side of things when there isn't much to explain. Touches such as the ability to change the colour of your bowling shirt aren't that interesting, but they all add up to show that a fair amount of effort has been spent on the product.

Although it shouldn't be in this particular box, there is a rather fine replay option which can be accessed right after you have struck some pins down, by holding down the fire-button for a couple of seconds. Lovingly re-created in slow motion, this feature gives you ideal opportunity to brag about your strikes and spares in great detail. The graphical element added to this feature is a terrific white 'R' which flashes in the corner of the screen.

See, I'm boring you now. Basically, the players are well-animated, the pins look good, especially close-up, and the screen is uncluttered and well-presented.




I'm happy to report that Team 17 have struck again. For just under £13 I challenge you to find a game that performs as well well as Kingpin. It may not boast graphics that blow the mind away or tunes that make your ears bleed, but it sports a superb array of sound effects and most important of all, it is packed full of top-notch quality gameplay and addiction.

I've been talking about the bog-standard game of Kingpin, but there are plenty of options such as the spares game where you have to hit a single pin - this sharpens up your bowling accuracy. Multi-player games work just as well as the single game and you can play against other humans or the computer. These features all go to give the game that bit of extra life to stop you from getting bored.

Even if you don't like tenpin bowling you're going to get a lot of satisfaction out of Team 17's latest offering. It's not one of those games you'll play for hours and hours on end, but if you ever need to play something for a short period of time then I'm sure you'll be reaching for Kingpin.

Yet another superb success for the Teamsters and is there anyone out there who is prepared to give them a good run for their money?

Kingpin: Arcade Sports Series Bowling logo

Tired of making 'bowled over' puns, Steve Bradley applies himself to the serious business of reviewing King Pin. It could be right up your alley.

For those who simply can't face negotiating numerous out-of-town roundabouts to get to the local alley, or indeed, those who are always in the tavern when Roseanne is on television, ten-pin bowling is basically skittles, only the task is that much more arduous, for skittles has but none pins, not ten.

King Pin runs with the name Arcade Sports Bowling, and after the heady success of their excellent Arcade Pool, it seems that Team 17 are regretting Pool's competitive price of a tenner. Three extra gold coins are required for bowling, friends. But no matter, King Pin tackles ten-pin bowling in much the same way as its counterpart did pool, only there are less options, though admittedly, the subject matter somewhat determines the result.

You bowl. Full stop. Apart from the varying matchplay options which allow teams and such like, there is an Arcade Spares Challenge where the computer chucks down pins and you have one ball to topple them, and a practice mode. You can be male or female, balls range from eight to 16 pounds and, oh God, I'm struggling here.

Look, it's ten-pin bowling, the pin movement is smooth enough, you can vary the speed at which you deliver the balls, and you can add aftertouch for those wayward deliveries.

An arrow pings back and forth across the alley and you have to click the button at the right spot to deliver the perfect ball - the more power you put into the delivery, the quicker the arrow moves and the more difficult the shot is. The Amiga players differ in ability so you can upgrade them as you improve. But as with many sports sims, the more human folk involved, the better.

Strike it lucky
So what, dear reader, has King Pin to offer the casual player? Well, to be perfectly candid, not a great deal - if you don't like ten-pin bowling, then you aren't going to be that interested. And sure, it's as well executed a bowling game as there is, though there are some not-quite-as-competent PD games which, nevertheless, can skittles knock over.
But King Pin simply doesn't have the longevity of Arcade Pool, which, because of the numerous options, holds interest a deal longer.

My only real beef with the game (apart from the fact that it really isn't terribly interesting) is whenever you turn off the music, which inevitably you will, the next game you play, lo and behold, the darned tune returns.

Nevertheless King Pin is without any doubt the only computer game which features a tannoy message asking ex-AF editor Marcus Dyson to 'go to reception, please.'

Alle zehne!

Kingpin: Arcade Sports Series Bowling logo

"Strike!" Wer schon immer mal Al Bundy's Siegesschrei vor dem Monitor ausstroßen wollte, liegt hier richtig - schließlich gab es seit dem alten "10th Frame" kein brauchbares Digi-Bowling mehr.

Mit Kneipensport haben die Jungs vor Team 17 ja bereits bei ihrem "Arcade Pool" Erfahrungen gesammelt, hier laden sie bis zu sechs menschliche Kugelwerfer in maximal drei Teams auf die Bowlingbahn ein - wer nicht so viele Freunde hat, läß t sich vom Computer aushelfen.

Für die CPU-Kegler gibt es neun verschiedene Schwierigkeitsgrade, zudem kann man allen Balljongleuren Handicaps vorgeben. In weiteren Menüs werden für jeden Teilnehmer Geschlecht, Hemdfarbe, Wurfhand und natürlich der Name ausgesucht.

Die eigentliche Action gestaltet sich demgegenüber vergleichsweise simpel: Per Joystick wählt man eine von fünf unterschiedlich schweren Kugeln, richtet seinen Digi-Sportler aus und bestimmt die eingesetzte Kraft mit Hilfe eines Balkens.

Dann wird der Wurfwinkel durch ein bewegtes Dreieck festgelegt und die Kugel via Feuerknopf auf die Reise geschickt. Doch halt, wob bleibt der Effet? Keine Sorge, den bestimmt man durch Drücken des Sticks in die entsprechende Richtung während des Wurfs. Und wenn man dann auch noch Neigung und Oberflächenbeschaffenheit der Bahn richtig berücksichtigt hat, sollten die Pins eigentlich wie gewünscht purzeln...

Jeder Durchgang besteht aus zehn "Frames", in denen die zehn Kegel jeweils mit maximal zwei Würfen so weit wie möglich abgeräumt werden sollen. Falls es komplett gelingt, gibt es Extrapunkte; erst recht, wenn man's mit einem einzigen Wurf schafft: Strike! Im Übungsmodus ist nur ein Heimsportler zugelassen, dasselbe gilt für die Spielvariante "Arcade Spares Challenge": Hier sollen zufällig vorgegebene Muster mit höchstens drei Versuchen abgeräumt werden. Ansonsten lassen sich individuelle Spielerpersönlichkeiten abspeichern, ebenso die Highscore-Listen für den Standard- und den Arcade-Modus.

So nett das alles ist, so trist sieht es aus - die sparsame Optik der Bahn und die allenfalls durchschnittlichen Animationen sorgen nicht gerade für überschäumende Stimmung. Noch dazu muß man die Unterschiede der (immerhin mit auf ein und derselben Disk befindlichen AGA-Version) mit der Lupe suchen.

Musikfreunde gehen zudem völlig leer aus, dafür sind die FX hörenswert: Gesampelte Sounds begleiten den Lauf der Kugel, räumt man alle Kegel ab oder schafft gar einen Strike erklingt auch Applaus. Und sollte mal ein besonders schwieriger Wurf gelingen, kann man sich diesen unter dem fröhlichen Gejohle der Zuschauer noch mal in Zeitlupe zu Gemüte führen.

Abschließend sollte noch gesagt werden, daß diese (vor allem via Joypad) total unkompliziert zu steuernde Sportsim erst in der Gruppe Freude macht - aber ihr Preis ist heiß, und allein ist auf einer echten Bowlingbahn ja auch nicht unbedingt der Bär los... (mash)

Kingpin: Arcade Sports Series Bowling logo

Sttrriiikkke! This game off your shopping list.

I've been fiddling about with this for days. Leaving it for a bit and then coming back, and even going so far as to set up my own player, play a few games and take a peek at my statistics. You see, the first thing you notice about Kingpin is its presentation.

It's obvious from the title screen that we're dealing with a ten-pin bowling sim, but as soon as the main menu pops up you're bowled - yes - over by the number of options.

Do you want to play a quick game? Or a whole series? How about the Arcade Spares Challenge? Of if you're more serious than that, what about creating a few players? And as I've already mentioned, you can keep checking out your own stats after every competitive match to see how you're doing. And that's only the beginning.

But to start with you'll probably want to skip all that and get out onto the alley. And if you're anywhere near as cynical as me, you'll be wondering just exactly what can be done with ten-pin bowling to turn it into an entertaining computer game. I've played a few PD versions, and they're okay if a bit dull. And although Team 17 have done their best with the presentation and look and sound of the game, I still can't imagine fighting for possession of it when there's nothing much to do on a Friday afternoon.

This isn't because the game is awful or bugged, or doesn't work properly. It's because you throw a ball down the lane, having selecting the weight, power and direction, and then put a bit of spin on it using aftertouch. And you see what happens. Which is fine for a while, but before too long you've tried all the possibilities and you're starting to get bored.

The tedium is worsened by the way the computer-controlled player will almost always select the same weight of ball and throw it in exactly the same direction. And he tends to score a strike almost every time, which, as well as being boring, is really annoying.

Oh well, nothing better to do

The saving (quite literally) grace of the game is the way you can create players and back up their stats, so that you can take some sort of career for yourself (I'm on a 166 average after four games with 12 strikes to my name). And if you can get three or four friends to visit you regularly and set up a little league, then you might even get some fun out of it.

It's laudable that the game is being released for only £13, and that Team 17 have clearly tried to put everything they possibly could into it, including some amusing speech. But the overriding sense of dullness never goes away. And in all the time I've been playing it, it's always been a case of "Oh well nothing better to do. I'd probably better have another crack at Kingpin." You could argue that's got more to do with AMIGA POWER's vast and mighty library of alternative games. But, of course, you'd be wrong.

Kingpin: Arcade Sports Series Bowling logo

Price: £12.99 Publisher: Team 17 0924 385 903

Hmm. A ten pin bowling simulation. Just what the Amiga is gagging for. Then again, who's Matt Broughton to argue with Team 17?

If there's one thing that Team 17 have proven over the years, it's their ability to consistently produce top-notch Amiga games, without sticking to any particular formula or game type.

Shoot 'em ups were revolutionised by the awesome Project X, the platform freaks had superfrog, Overdrive sorted out the racing fans, and even pub-fans had Arcade Pool to play (once they'd been kicked out of the pub presumably).
Well now it's time for ten pin bowling - not exactly an obvious sport for a computer game conversion.

Spinning balls
Kingpin avoids any major criticism because it achieves all that it sets out to. Unless you're a serious bowling enthusiast, the main question is not 'how accurate is it?' but 'is it likely to be any fun?'

Well, it's easy to get into, with an extremely intuitive control system, and simple, uncomplicated graphics to guide you along the way. First you select whether you want to make your approach from the right or the left. Push the joystick up or down to select a power level and then press fire to go.

At this point, a lovely little arrow appears at the front of the lane and zips back and forth; its speed is determined by the power level you previously set. You now have to take part in what really boils down to nothing more than a glorified reactions test, in the vague hope that the ball doesn't immediately sod off down the gutter.

With this, the ball trundles down the alley, where upon the screen changes to a zoomed-in view, showing the final collision between ball and pins. The animation is a little bit jerky, but is believable enough, and even includes the mechanism that collects the remaining pins, along with the little flap that drops down and shovels off the dead ones.

Added extras
Fortunately, Team 17 have managed to include a few random elements in Kingpin to avoid the standard sport sim complaint 'I've got the knack. I'm now invincible'. This comes mainly in the form of differently waxed lanes that set the ball spinning in odd ways; sometimes pulling to the left, some pulling to the right. There's an action replay facility available - and before you crazy wild speed freaks get all panicky yes, it is in slow-mo.

You do have the option to create and save a player to disk. In this way, rather than just having a new version of 'you' every time you load up, you can call back your own custom geeza (complete with custom coloured shirt) and work towards building an impressive set of performance statistics.

Kingpin goes down as a competent bowling sim, and though not exactly the sort of thing you'll show your PC mates to impress them, it does come into its own when played among a group.

The controls are simple but effective and the graphics and sound do exactly what you'd want them to do (and there are some particularly nice speech samples in the A1200 version to keep the atmosphere up as well).

The score for Kingpin may seem slightly light considering the generally positive comments I've made throughout, but that's simply because I'm worried about Kingpin's long-term appeal, coupled with the thought, 'are many people really that interested in a ten pin simulation?'. Still, it's worth a go if you're tickled by such things.

Kingpin: Arcade Sports Series Bowling CD32 logo CD32 Amiga Computing Gold Award

Enjoy the wonders of Ten-Pin bowling without leaving the comfort of your own home. Tina Hackett thinks Team 17 have scored a strike with this one.


Completely by coincidence I happen to be going bowling tonight and, being totally out of practice, Team 17's bowling sim couldn't have arrived at a better time. Now I can sharpen up my skills and impress my team mates with a 300-score pummeling. Okay, that's unlikely to happen but at least it gives me a chance to get some practice in without the awful risk of slipping on my behind from accidentally stepping over the foul line!

The more astute among you will be thinking 'Kingpin again'? Didn't they review this ages ago? "Aha," I say knowingly. "Yes we did, but this is for the CD32!" And for £14.99 it seemed like too much of a bargain to pass up on - especially as our previous review rated it 88 per cent and a Gold Award. So we take yet another sneaky peak at the game that promises all the fun of Ten-Pin bowling without having the embarrassment of wearing those awful clown shoes.


The sound of the original was pretty damn impressive and what it didn't have in pounding back tracks, it made up for with totally atmospheric samples taken from a real bowling alley. This version has been enhanced and therefore obviously sounds better, and the whole sound package works really well from the receptionist abbouncements over the tannoy t the balls hurtling down the alleys.




The graphics are also highly realistic (as much as they can portray a whole bowling alley on screen anyway) and every attention to detail has been paid, from the polished lanes down to the hideous shoes. The players are well animated and move with fluidity and the balls move like you would expect in the real thing.

The developers have ray-traced the pins in nearly 400 positions t accurately display the real thing, and it looks very impressive. The machine that picks up the pins and resets them (forgive me if I don't use the technical words) is even included, adding to that all-important sense of realism.

There's alsoa computer screen layout which displays your scores - just like in the real thing. All the screens are well set out too and it's easy to see how to set your power or how many points are scored. However, the arrows that allow you to line up your ball are a little on the small side and it would have made life easier if they had been made slightly more prominent.




Fun, original and addictive are just three of many adjectives of praise I could heap upon this title. Okay, it's certainly not the best or advanced title in the entire world but for a highly enjoyable multi-player game you couldn't do much better. There are many small touches added that make Kingpin as realistic as possible and they work brilliantly. You will even have to consider such things as how much wax is on the lane and how it will effect play - even the fact that it will wear off during a game.

The different views of the match have been well executed using a long-range angle of the lane when you start to bowl, then a close-up of the pins when the ball approaches them. This adds some element of tension to the game, especially as the pins wobble and shake as they would in the real thing.

Kingpin has plenty of options to tailor the game to your taste. There is a nice feature which allows you to practice your skills at knocking down 'splits' in an arcade challenge, or you can play a match in pairs or in teams of three. And don't worry if your bowling skills leave a lot to be desired because you can add a handicap to a player to even up a competition.

The CD32 version obviously employs the control pad which I found to work a lot better than a joystick. Each button has a different function so you can change the weight on the balls, alter the power, and set up your shot easily.

All in all, a high quality product packed with tonnes of detail, and one which is guaranteed to provide hours of entertainment.

Kingpin: Arcade Sports Series Bowling CD32 logo CD32

Arcade sports bowling is the name and 10-pin bowling is the game, rattled the correspondent with poetic aplomb. Or so he thought. Indoor bowls is an odd game to play on a computer, although I'm not sure why it translates so.

We happily play a round of golf, a cup of football, a test of cricket and a frame of snooker. So why does bowling feel so... so... so..., well... dull, after a couple of matches. And there is nothing wrong with this game. The ball movement is splendid, the pin movement almost realistic; it's pretty, the girl has a pony tail and a short skirt and you get to choose between loads of different coloured T-shirts.

The balls range from eight to sixteen pounds, you can enter your own names, there is a practice mode and an Arcade Spares Challenge where the computer bravely dares you to knock solitary pins. Comprehensive? You betcha, Bill Cosy would offer.

But the problem is that King Pin is limited by the very nature of the subject matter and it suffers accordingly. In team 17's roaring Arcade Pool, you could play killer and speed pool AND change the colour of the baize.

King Pin is a game to play with a few mates, a couple of bottles of pop and a cheery grin. It is a game you will play for an hour at a time and then put down. Quickly, I became bored.

Kingpin: Arcade Sports Series Bowling CD32 logo CD32

Gerade eine Ausgabe ist es her, daß uns Team 17 diese preiswerte Sport-Sim auf Diskette in die Redaktion kegelte - schon wurde eine zweite Bahn errichtet, damit auch die Schillerfreunde abräumen können.

Zur digitalen Körperertüchtigung nach Feierabend sind erneut bis zu sechs "Kugelstoßer" eingeladen, die in maximal drei Teams gegeneinander ankullern dürfen. Wer nicht so viele Freunde hat, dem stellt das Programm die fehlenden Partner, wobei die Spielstärke der CPU-Bowler in neun Schwierigkeitsgraden regelbar ist.

Für Chancengleichheit sorgt hier, wie auch bei den fleischlichen Teilnehmern, ein einstellbares Handicap. Hat man sich dann für Hemdfarbe, wurfhand und Geschlecht entschieden, wird ein Modus ausgesucht.

Für Solisten gibt es eine Übungs- und eine launige Arcade-Variante, bei der Zufallsmuster mit maximal drei Würfen weggefegt werden müssen. Um Punkte geht es dagegen im Standardmodus; hier sollten die Pins möglichst mit zwei Würfen pro Frame erledigt werden. Sind alle Kegel verschwunden, gibt es Zusatzpunkte, und wer dies mit einem einzigen Wuf schafft, bekommt noch einen Extrabonus. Nach zehn Frames ist ein Durchgang beendet, und es schlägt die Stunde des Siegers.

Die Wurftechnik hat man sich dabei so vorzustellen: Zunächst wird das Digi-Ego seitenmäßig ausgerichtet, eine von fünf unterschiedlich schweren Kugeln ausgesucht und über einen Balken die Kraft gewählt. Nach Einstellen des Winkels rollt die Mega-Murmel auf Knopfdruck los, den Effet steuert der Heim-Sportler durch Drücken des Sticks oder Pads in die entsprechende Richtung während des Wufs bei - ja, sogar die Neigung und Oberflächenbeschaffenheit der Bahn werden mit ins Kalkül gezogen.

Und falls man neben seinem CD32 über ein SX1 mit Disk-Laufwerk verfügt oder auf Amiga-CD bowlt, sind individuelle Spieler genau wie Highscorelisten für den Standard- und den Arcade-Modus speicherbar.

So simpel wie die Steuerung ist leider auch die Grafik: Die unspektakulär gezeichnete Bahn und die wenig berauschenden Bewegungsabläufe vermögen kaum für größere Aha-Erlebnisse zu sorgen. Zudem erschöpft sich die musikalische Begleitung in einem fetzigen Titeltrack, der übrigens den einzigen Unterschied zur AGA-Diskversion darstellt.

Andererseits lassen die Sound-FX durchaus mal echte Bowling-Atmosphäre aufkommen, etwa wenn ein gelungener Wurf mit Beifall quittiert oder eine besonders komplizierte Aktion gar mit frenetischem Jubel belohnt wird.
Dazu dröhnt die Kugel mit Sample-Sound über die Bahn, und die Kegel fallen mit einem satten Klack!

Sie bei so vielen Sportspielen kommt trotzt ordentlichem Gameplay (speziell unter Einsatz des Pads) aber alleine nicht die rechte Stimmung auf, doch das ist auf echten Bowlingbahnen ja ähnlich. Wer jedoch ausreichend Gleichgesinnte vor den Monitor scharen kann, sollte sich dieses preiswerte Vergnügen ruhig gönnen. (mash)

Kingpin: Arcade Sports Series Bowling CD32 logo CD32

Price: £14.99 Publisher: Team 17 01924 385 903

Unlike bowls, which involves people in tank tops and slippers rolling 'unround' balls around a village green, Ten Pin Bowling is the wholesome pastime of mafia bosses and families from Milton Keynes. Basically skittles using big balls with finger holes I never thought it would look good on screen, but Team 17 have changed my mind.

There are three main play options: A Single series where you can play against up to five computer opponents in one, three or five full games; Pairs involves you teaming up with a partner trying to beat another couple with your combined scores; and Trio consists of two teams of three competing against each other over a set amount of games.

There are other variations such as Matchplay where you must win a certain amount of games and Spares where you have to knock down awkward 'splits'. In case all of these scoring methods gets confusing there's a handy computerized score sheet to keep track of all the points.

Team 17 have tried to make KingPin as close to real bowling as possible, so you also have to contend with waxed floors which have slight curves and bends. To combat them you can choose from a variety of ball wights and can increase or decrease the strength of your shot accordingly. There's even an option to much about with your opponent's statistics to give you that extra edge.

KingPin on Amiga received a very respectable score of 76% when it was reviewed in the March issue of CU Amiga Magazine. IT was credited with good graphics, involving gameplay and intuitive control, and nothing whatsoever has changed on the CD32 version.

Control is just as simple: you can move the player's position, alter the ball's weight and the power of the shot. The sound is mainly limited to pin racking noises and random announcements from a female voice-over telling people to move their cars away from the entrance. It's an original concept though and at £14.99 it's good value for money.